Walmart’s Super Agents, Vogue’s AI Models & Bed Bath’s Rebirth (Discounted, Of Course) | Fast Five
In this week’s Omni Talk Retail Fast Five, sponsored by the A&M Consumer and Retail Group, Simbe, Mirakl, Ocampo Capital, Infios, and ClearDemand, Chris and Anne discussed:
- Walmart’s overhaul of its AI agent strategy, consolidating dozens of agents into four “super agents” for different user groups (Source)
- Vogue magazine’s AI model backlash after featuring an AI-generated model in a Guess advertisement (Source)
- Bed Bath & Beyond’s brick-and-mortar return on August 8th in Nashville, complete with legacy coupon acceptance (Source)
- Ty Haney’s comeback at Outdoor Voices with a “confident, bold and sexy” relaunch strategy (Source)
- Macy’s partnership with Abercrombie Kids for back-to-school merchandising (Source)
There’s all that, plus Buffalo wings, which Halloween candy they would most like to see in stores year-round, and who leveled up more – Katy Perry or Justin Trudeau?
P.S. Be sure to check out all our other podcasts from the past week here, too: https://omnitalk.blog/category/podcast/
P.P.S. Also be sure to check out our podcast rankings on Feedspot
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#RetailNews #WalmartAI #VogueAI #BedBathBeyond #OutdoorVoices #AbercrombieMacys #RetailPodcast #OmniTalk #RetailTech #AIAgents #RetailInnovation
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Transcript
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Speaker A:Protecting margins, Smarter pricing, stronger profits.
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Speaker A:Learn more@cleardemand.com and finally, Ocampo Capital.
Speaker A:Ocampo Capital is a venture capital firm founded by retail executives with the aim of helping early stage consumer businesses succeed.
Speaker B:Through investment and operational support.
Speaker B:Learn more@ocampocapital.com hello, you are listening to Omnitalk's Retail Fast Five ranked in the top 10% of all podcasts globally and currently the only retail podcast ranked in the top 100 of all business podcasts on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker B:The Retail Fast five is the podcast that we hope makes you feel a little smarter, but most importantly, a little happier each week too.
Speaker B:And the Fast 5 is just one of the many great podcasts you can find from the on the Talk Retail Podcast Network alongside our Retail Daily Minute, which brings you a curated selection of the most important retail headlines every morning and our Retail Technology Spotlight series, which goes deep each week on the latest retail technology Trends.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:I'm one of your hosts, Ann Mazinga.
Speaker C:And I'm Chris Walton and we are.
Speaker B:Here once again to discuss all the top headlines from the Past week making waves in the world of omnichannel retailing.
Speaker B:And Chris, we are here.
Speaker B:We are in the grandest of rapids, Grand Rapids, Michigan, and we are doing our last show before we break for vacation.
Speaker B:So quick listener note, there's no Fast five for the next two weeks.
Speaker B:You're gonna have to watch and listen to all the greatest hits because we will be back for you with another fast five on August 20th.
Speaker B:Chris, you got any big vacation plans while, while we're gone here?
Speaker C:No vacation plans.
Speaker C:You know, mother Omni Talk had her hip replaced, Dan.
Speaker C:So I've been nurse Omni talk for the past two weeks, so I'm kind of probably staying stateside saying taking a stay vacation in Minneapolis, but yeah, no content for two weeks.
Speaker C:Not just the Fast 5, but no content in general.
Speaker C:It's where we shut down the headquarters and vacate, as my freshman English teacher used to say.
Speaker C:And vacations are meant to be vacated.
Speaker C:So what are you doing?
Speaker B:Well, we, we're taking a last minute trip down to Playa del Carmen, Mexico.
Speaker B:We do home exchange.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And, and our, our home exchange plans were rerouted.
Speaker B:We'll say rather last minute.
Speaker B:So we're going to, I mean really, I don't think it's going to be any more hot or humid than Minneapolis is right now.
Speaker B:So there is a pool there and an ocean and we're just going to kick back with the family for, for a week down there.
Speaker B:So it'll be great.
Speaker C:Sounds fun.
Speaker C:Sounds fun.
Speaker C:Sounds very Midwestern too.
Speaker C:So kudos to you for that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I got to give a shout out to the AC Marriott Hotel before here, here at the AC Marriott in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
Speaker C:But I got a question for you before we get going here today because this has been dying.
Speaker C:This has been bugging me.
Speaker C:It's kind of a little Piccadillo of mine.
Speaker C:Where do you stand on all the new hotel designs?
Speaker C:Where the sink is outside the bathroom?
Speaker C:Like, do you, are you, are you pro that or are you con that?
Speaker B:Yes, very much pro.
Speaker B:Very.
Speaker C:You're pro that why I'm so decidedly con?
Speaker B:Probably because you're not somebody that wears makeup and needs the ability to use the bathroom when somebody is using.
Speaker B:I mean, you put everything in the bathroom.
Speaker B:You can't brush your teeth.
Speaker B:You can't get ready if the toilet and the sink are in the same vicinity.
Speaker B:It eliminates every possibility.
Speaker B:Like you, all you need when you are on the toilet is just the toilet.
Speaker B:And you shut the door, you don't need to lock.
Speaker B:Everybody else out of.
Speaker B:Of all of those things.
Speaker B:Especially when you're, like, traveling with kids.
Speaker B:My God, that's terrible.
Speaker C:Okay, okay, so you're saying when it's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's a user experience design benefit for when you're traveling with other people or that you can still use on your own.
Speaker C:That's interesting.
Speaker C:I never thought about that.
Speaker B:What's the benefit?
Speaker C:Water everywhere.
Speaker C:I just get water everywhere.
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:It's just awful.
Speaker B:It sounds like a Chris Walton problem.
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, you have towels, like.
Speaker C:Chris Walton problem, and.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's for sure.
Speaker C:That's without a doubt.
Speaker C:All right, let's get.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't understand why you're getting water everywhere.
Speaker C:You know, I just drip and, you know, just.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's just bad news bears, like, and then the six out in the.
Speaker C:In the closet, and I sprayed water all over my clothes on the closet.
Speaker B:Oh, okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:That's making more sense.
Speaker C:There's a whole.
Speaker C:There's a whole host of collateral damage that comes at me.
Speaker B:Probably particularly when maybe less aggressive hand washing.
Speaker B:Less aggressive hand washing, right.
Speaker C:Yes, yes.
Speaker C:Maybe less Germaphobia would help, too.
Speaker C:All right, we've got this podcast started off in the right way.
Speaker C:And in this week's Fast Five News, folks, we've got news on Vogue's AI model backlash Bed Bathing Beyond's brick and mortar return, Ty Haney and her attempt to relaunch Outdoor Voices with a confident, bold and sexy look.
Speaker C:And I like saying those three words together.
Speaker C:Confident, bold, and sexy.
Speaker C:Three things that have never been said about me.
Speaker C:And Abercrombie and Kids is also partnering up with Macy's for Back to School.
Speaker C:But we begin today with a headline that calls to mind that great song, or at least kind of that great song and ready for it.
Speaker C:Super Age IT Man.
Speaker C:Super agent.
Speaker C:Agent Man.
Speaker C:Take it away.
Speaker B:Yep, yep.
Speaker B:I don't know how I possibly follow that up.
Speaker B:Headline number one, Chris.
Speaker B:Walmart is overhauling its approach to AI super agents.
Speaker B:According to the Wall Street Journal, Walmart is overhauling its AI agent strategy as it aims to simplify their user experience.
Speaker B:Agents refer to artificial intelligence tools that can independently take some action on behalf of a user.
Speaker B:And Walmart in recent months has built dozens, maybe too many, as a matter of fact, and things were starting to get a little confusing for their users.
Speaker B:Walmart told the Wall Street Journal.
Speaker B:Now the retail giant is taking a step back and consider consolidating all of those agents into four discrete interfaces it calls super agents.
Speaker B:That is a direct Quote folks, super agents.
Speaker B:One is for customers, one is for employees, one is for engineers and one is for sellers and suppliers.
Speaker B:Walmart said the super agent for each group will tap the capabilities of a number of behind the scenes agents, all in a single unified experience.
Speaker B:Chris, are you pro or con?
Speaker B:Walmart's aggressive use of super agents?
Speaker C:Ooh, yeah, I mean I think I'm lauding Walmart for this one.
Speaker C:And I mean I laud them for being, I laud them for being so public with their AI intentions in general.
Speaker C:I think that's notable for a retailer particularly especially when you look back 30 years ago at the dawn of E commerce and how retailers reacted to that.
Speaker C:So you know, most people dismissed it back then and so Walmart's being the first to jump into it.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So for that I think it wins.
Speaker C:March with me.
Speaker C:Secondarily, I think unlike many other retailers, again it also appears that there's a well thought out deployment strategy around AI to keep everyone on the same page.
Speaker C:So I think that's also good versus having, you know, because we've seen a lot of approaches too.
Speaker C:You and I were talking about this yesterday on the plane.
Speaker C:We've seen a lot of approaches too where just individuals are just like acting willy nilly with AI and whatever use cases they want inside organizations.
Speaker C:But you know, Walmart here is being very thoughtful and breaking down a bucket.
Speaker C:So I like that.
Speaker C:But the third question I have to ask.
Speaker C:Yeah, which this one's kind of interesting to me is why for super agents, like doesn't the argument for the super agent kind of go against having four?
Speaker C:Shouldn't there just be one super agent that everyone can interact with at the end of the day?
Speaker C:So I don't really get the logic of this.
Speaker C:But with that said, there's probably somebody out there that understands AI better than I do that can answer that to say if they tell me if I'm snipping up, sniffing up the right track.
Speaker C:But, but maybe that's where the other part about it too is.
Speaker C:Maybe that's where they ultimately go.
Speaker C:But first they have to acculturate the organization to, to AI and hence they're using the buckets to do that to get everyone on the same page.
Speaker C:So I can buy into like the step, stepwise approach to super agents.
Speaker C:But in theory there should just be one super agent.
Speaker C:I would.
Speaker B:Sure, yeah, I mean that makes sense to me.
Speaker B:I think what is more most important here are two things.
Speaker B:One that you know, they are, it does sound like in the consolidation of multiple agents down to just four, that they're really invested in listening to all of the stakeholders involved in using these AI agents.
Speaker B:So they are, you know, maybe there's value to highly specializing each agent based on, you know, a customer's needs, based on the associates in store needs, the suppliers needs, etc.
Speaker B:So I think that to me that just shows, like you said, Walmart has a very well thought out strategy and is light years ahead of a lot of other retailers in terms of how they're going to apply this technology.
Speaker B:And the second thing that I think is really important too to note is their cto.
Speaker B:Kumar said his last name is Kumar.
Speaker B:I forget his first name.
Speaker B:I'm Suresh Kumar.
Speaker B:Suresh Kumar.
Speaker B:I think there's a great quote that he said in this Wall Street Journal Journal article.
Speaker B:He said the shift is a natural evolution based on the fact that the company found so many different use cases for AI agents.
Speaker B:The technology has buy in at all levels at Walmart, starting with the leadership at the very top.
Speaker B:And that's the other thing that's really important here.
Speaker B:Not only are they specializing each of these agents to the right people for now, hopefully building up to one super agent, but they have buy in from their leaders at the very top of Walma going down.
Speaker B:This is a direction that they're heading in a technology that they're investing in.
Speaker B:And I think that to me is one of the key parts of what the future success looks like for Walmart and these agents.
Speaker C:Yeah, your point about the leadership's really good too, because the other thing I saw over the weekend, I saw Doug McMillan talking about this on LinkedIn and Doug McMillan, you know, if he's talking about it, you know, that means the CEO is focused on it.
Speaker C:And that's very rare for a CEO to be talking about this type of thing that overtly as well.
Speaker C:So it's a great point.
Speaker C:All right, headline number two.
Speaker C:A guest.
Speaker C:A guess ad.
Speaker C:A guess ad.
Speaker C:Not a guest ad.
Speaker C:But maybe it's a guest ad too.
Speaker C:But a guest ad featuring an AI generated model appeared in Vogue magazine's August issue.
Speaker C:And critics say it looks, quote, cheap and desperate.
Speaker C:Sounds like my kind of model.
Speaker C:According to Fast Company, in the August print edition of the magazine, a guest advertisement features an almost two perfect model wearing a striped dress and a floral playsuit from the brand's summer collection in very small print.
Speaker C:There's a note saying that she was created using AI.
Speaker C:While Vogue states that the AI model was not an editorial decision, the fashion magazine has still faced considerable backlash Online, some critics have gone so far as to call it the quote, downfall of Vogue.
Speaker C:And do you think the critics of Vogue surrounding their AI models need to take a chill pill or do you think they have a point?
Speaker B:I don't know that that's the question I would ask.
Speaker B:I think what you have to think about when it comes AI models and when and where those are appropriate, you have to think back to something that Chad Lusk said on our show a few weeks ago.
Speaker B:And that is, is it right for your brand?
Speaker B:AI models do not make sense for every brand.
Speaker B:In fact, a lot of brands, especially high fashion brands, it will be important and almost necessary for their success for them to use real models to show diversity, to show their commitment to, you know, keeping these photo shoots and these product shoots pure and truly representative of their whole brand mission.
Speaker B:It will have to be unreal models.
Speaker B:That said, there are some use cases where this makes sense.
Speaker B:I think there, you know, I don't know that there's a binary answer to this.
Speaker B:I think there's some especially smaller retailers who, it's, it's the choice between, you know, a lay down on white where you don't get to see the product on anyone, or an AI model that may be representative of a multitude of sizes, you know, or forms or figures or 3D models.
Speaker B:So they're trying to show it on somebody as a real body.
Speaker B:So, and they can't.
Speaker B:Those brands can't afford to do photo shoots and can't afford to hire models.
Speaker B:And this is the direction that things are going in.
Speaker B:So I, I think that in this particular use case, the guess brand thought that it appropriate.
Speaker B:They're paying Vogue money.
Speaker B:Vogue didn't have to take their money.
Speaker B:Vogue could have said, no, you can't use AI models in here.
Speaker B:That's an editorial decision based on Vogue.
Speaker B:And I think readers will support Vogue or support the brands that choose to use AI models or not.
Speaker B:And that's the real thing here that people have to be thinking about.
Speaker B:So that's, that's my, my assessment of this.
Speaker B:I, I don't like it but, but that's my personal opinion.
Speaker B:So I don't have to support that brand.
Speaker B:But what do you think about AI?
Speaker C:Yeah, well, so I want to make sure I understand too.
Speaker C:So going back to the question, so if you were Vogue, would you be allowing AI models in your advertisements?
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker C:Or in your magazine at all?
Speaker B:I don't think you can ask that question.
Speaker B:Like Vogue is a, there's a, there's so much to that.
Speaker B:Like, can Vogue withstand being a magazine if they don't allow it?
Speaker B:Like, can they need this, this advertiser revenue?
Speaker B:So I. I don't think that.
Speaker B:And I think an advertisement is different than Vogue actually using AI models for their editorial content.
Speaker B:Like that, to me, seems fraught with error because that is an art.
Speaker B:Vogue is an art form, an art magazine showing styles, showing fashion.
Speaker B:I think if you are going to start using AI models for that, then, no, that doesn't work for you as a platform.
Speaker B:And I don't think you have success as a magazine if you start going in that direction.
Speaker C:So you're okay if they use it as an advertisement.
Speaker C:You're not okay if they use it in their own generated.
Speaker B:I don't think they have a choice.
Speaker B:I think they have to allow people to use it as an advertisement because they need advertisers to keep a magazine going that's, you know, an industry that's slowly, slowly dying.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker C:I go in the opposite direction.
Speaker C:No, I mean, I think your point about brand is right.
Speaker C:And, you know, that's ultimately what the decision you have to make.
Speaker C:And so I think if you're Vogue and you're celebrating high design and real beauty, then you can't.
Speaker C:You just can't do this.
Speaker C:And that's how you separate yourself.
Speaker C:And that's why you get people to come to Vogue.
Speaker C:And you're very overt about it and you talk about it, because if you don't do it, somebody else will.
Speaker C:And there's niches for everything.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And if you're like.
Speaker C:But to your point, I hear what you're saying too.
Speaker C:Like, if you're guessing this works for you or the countless other retailers out there in which people can't tell the difference anyway, then sure, why not?
Speaker C:But if Vogue, if Vogue is what it is, you know, in my opinion, they shouldn't be letting that type of advertisement in.
Speaker C:But you have to go at the ultimate.
Speaker C:End of the day, you have to go with your brand.
Speaker C:Now, there's all these complexities to this too.
Speaker C:Like, what is an AI model?
Speaker C:Is it the person?
Speaker C:Is it the background?
Speaker C:You know, where do you draw the line?
Speaker C:I think that's where there's a whole host of other questions that come surrounding this.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And, you know, I'm not as.
Speaker C:I'm not as big as a.
Speaker C:As a.
Speaker C:What's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker C:I'm not as big of a.
Speaker C:Of a stentorian.
Speaker C:I guess, for lack of a better way to say it, or A rule follower on like the backgrounds and stuff.
Speaker C:But if you're using the real people and you're celebrating real beauty, I think so.
Speaker C:It depends though, like, if you're like a travel magazine, you should be using AI backgrounds in your travel magazines, really either, you know, at the end of the day.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker B:Well, and I think, I think where do you draw the line at AI?
Speaker B:Like, is Photoshop considered AI?
Speaker B:Are you.
Speaker B:Is that if you Photoshop an image on a shoot from Travel and Leisure magazine, like, every one of those photos, real, human or not, in the majority of cases are retouched.
Speaker B:And that's, in today's world, a use of AI, I think the most important.
Speaker C:So then we're going down the chill pill.
Speaker C:We're going down the chill pill avenue.
Speaker C:Like these critics need to take a chill pill.
Speaker B:I mean, I, I think, I think the real line is when you are showing what we appear to think is a human being that is not a real human being.
Speaker B:I think that's where you start to draw the line.
Speaker B:And I think the most important takeaway for me of this whole thing is just, just actually applauding Vogue for noting that this was an AI image.
Speaker B:I think that's the biggest thing to take away here.
Speaker B:Like in four.
Speaker B:I. I guess my.
Speaker B:I, I have less of a problem because they're noting that they're watermarking this picture as this is an AI generated image.
Speaker C:You decide what you want as the reader of this 100.
Speaker B:But I don't think Vogue can get away from it.
Speaker B:I think they need their advertisers too much.
Speaker C:Interesting.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I don't know the business model economics of Vogue in terms of how important that is, but yeah, those, those are, those are really strong points.
Speaker B:All right, let's go to headline number three, something that Chris, hopefully you are much more well versed in than AI models in Vogue.
Speaker B:Bed Bath and Beyond is set to return Aug. 8, complete with its iconic coupons.
Speaker B: yond home store following its: Speaker B:The store and those that succeed it will be operated by the Brand House Collective, which recently rebranded from its former name, Kirkland, under that company's investment partnership with Beyond Inc.
Speaker B:The partnership also includes plans for a physical buy by baby and overstock store coming at a later date to honor the brand's history.
Speaker B:Guests are invited to.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Bring legacy Bed Bath and Beyond coupons to the store.
Speaker B:God knows what kind of stains and disgusting things are on those things from being at the bottom of a drawer.
Speaker B:And if they would like, they can exchange it for a fresh version which will be available when they come into the store.
Speaker B:Chris, are you buying or selling the second coming of Bed, Bath and Beyond stores?
Speaker C:And I'm selling this one.
Speaker C:I'm selling it really, really hard.
Speaker C:And funny enough, before this headline even broke this week, I was actually talking about Bed, Bath and Beyond with my.
Speaker C:With one of my former bosses and one of my biggest mentors out there.
Speaker C:As he was in town, I was having breakfast with him on Friday and he was telling me this story about how he was taking his daughter to college and how previously Bed, Bath and Beyond had been such an important part of the going back to college experience.
Speaker C:That's where a lot of people went to get all the things they needed.
Speaker C:And he was going through it with her and he's like, wow, yeah, Bed Bath Beyonds is gone.
Speaker C:I don't miss them at all.
Speaker C:And so we got into the discussion, I was like, yeah, you're right.
Speaker C:And he's like.
Speaker C:Then he's like, do you miss Kmart?
Speaker C:And I was like, do you miss Toys R Us?
Speaker C:Do you miss Sears?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:So there's all this nostalgia that we have for the brands when at the end of the day, no one really, really misses them all that much, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And that's the key thing here.
Speaker C:And so, like, it's a fun headline, but.
Speaker C:And congrats on the opening.
Speaker C:It's cool.
Speaker C:But, like, long term, I don't see this going anywhere because it's still a really crowded space.
Speaker C:There's a lot of unbranded merchandise.
Speaker C:There's a lot of private label merchandise in this space.
Speaker C:It's hard to break in.
Speaker C:It's hard to create.
Speaker C:The reason for being in the home furnishing space, you know, especially in the physical world.
Speaker C:I mean, Wayfair is trying to do it.
Speaker C:They haven't cracked the code on it either.
Speaker C:And then the other part that really annoys me, Ann, just as a merchant in my core.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Is the coupons as the hook.
Speaker C:You're using the coupons, the nostalgia of coupons to get people in the door.
Speaker C:So you're discounting your brand from the get go to get people into the door.
Speaker C:You're saying, come to us to get a deal versus, like, come to us because of what we are in home furnishings and what we stand for.
Speaker C:And why you want to come shop here day in and day out, not because you want to get the old junkie coupons out of your drawer.
Speaker C:And by the way, whoever has those coupons still, like, I mean, my God, like, come on.
Speaker C:I mean I would have thrown those out a long time ago.
Speaker C:But anyway, that's my take said merchandising strategy.
Speaker C:I think it's a, actually as a starting point for a merchandising strategy to open a store.
Speaker C:I think it's a terrible idea, horrible idea to leverage the coupons.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think it's so funny.
Speaker B:We have two major AI related headlines this week that are kind of shifting things in the retail industry as far as we know it.
Speaker B:And then we go to Bed, Bath and Beyond, reopening a physical store, accepting.
Speaker C:Printed coupons of anachronistic.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know, but you know, I was really trying to think about this and the only, the only thought I had of like where this could kind of carve out a niche is that there really aren't any like high quality goods at middle of the road price points all in one spot that are like, there's multiples of.
Speaker B:So like I'm thinking if you do decide you want to step above like an Amazon Ikea or Target sheet for your back to college, you want something that's a little bit nicer but not like you know, department store prices or you know, 1,000 count, you know, thread count sheets.
Speaker B:This could be the place that you could get that.
Speaker B:But I just worry again, which I think is why they're using the coupons so significantly is like I worry that there's, the price point is still going to be a little bit too high than what people are willing to pay.
Speaker B:I think that they'd rather go to a home goods or TJX or something and be like, well I'll just deal with these like striped printed sheets.
Speaker B:I don't care.
Speaker B:They're, they're that high quality at the price point that I'm willing to spend instead of, you know, having that variety.
Speaker B:So I'm, I'm selling too.
Speaker B:I don't think that this is going to be long for this world, unfortunately.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And the point I would add on, on, on what you said about the, the middle price point or whatever is, you know, having spent a lot of time in the home furnishings business and spending, you know, majority of my time in my career in the home furnishings business, the difference in quality between like even like Target's best Target or maybe not Walmart's but like Target's best quality products and say like, like the best towels at Target or the best sheets at Target, at least back in the day.
Speaker C:I don't know now because not in merchandising there now, but back in the day versus like even Pottery Barn or West Restoration Hardware is almost negligible.
Speaker C:So there's, there's really no, if you actually look at the product, there's not that much you can get for the increase in make.
Speaker C:You're just paying for the brand at that, at that, at that point.
Speaker C:And smart home furnishing shoppers get that, which is why the prices have, have migrated down so much over the years.
Speaker C:And you know, and those particular retailers have done so well in garnering the market.
Speaker C:Wayfairs, Target, Walmart and Bed Bath beyond is gone because Bed Bath beyond was kind of playing that position that you just talked about already.
Speaker C:But you're like, well what's the real value here ultimately?
Speaker C:And so that's, that's the dynamics of how the category works.
Speaker C:It's kind of true in apparel too because you're just taking so much margin for what is, you know, essentially brand on top of quality.
Speaker C:So anyway, okay, all right, and let's keep going on this.
Speaker C:Let's, let's keep going into, into stories that used to be cool but maybe still are, but maybe they still aren't so.
Speaker C:And Ty Haney.
Speaker C:Ty Haney is back at Outdoor Voices, relaunching the activewear brand with a confident, bold and sexy look.
Speaker C:According to Glossy Tai.
Speaker C: and she originally founded in: Speaker C: quired outdoor voices in June: Speaker C:The relaunch kicked off with dramatic social media fanfare as Outdoor Voices wiped its its Instagram grid clean.
Speaker C:And follow just one person, Haney herself.
Speaker C:The first product drops will be a limited edition diamante adorned sweatshirt reading Doing Things.
Speaker C:Yeah, aren't we all?
Speaker C:The brand is positioning itself as the quote, uniform for doing things, expanding beyond pure athletic functionality.
Speaker C:And the design philosophy now embraces what Haney calls an intersection between designer and activewear with elevated details typically reserved for high end fashion.
Speaker C:And Ty Haney coming back to Outdoor Voices sounds a little Messiah ish to me if I gotta be honest.
Speaker C:But this is also our put you on the spot question, our A and M Put yout on the Spot question of the week.
Speaker C:So here it is.
Speaker C:Bringing back Haney as the OG Outdoor Voice in quotes could reignite the brand's magic and thinking about whether this will work for the brand.
Speaker C:When is a founder still the right leader years into a brand's journey?
Speaker C:And how do you know when it's time to hand the reins to new leadership as Outdoor Voices may have done prematurely?
Speaker B:Oh, I mean, wouldn't we all be wealthy if we knew exactly when the right time was to get rid of the founder and bring in some new leadership?
Speaker B:I mean, I think that Outdoor Voices, I think, missed out.
Speaker B:I think, as A and M suggests, Outdoor Voices released Tai Haney prematurely as a brand that is, you know, originally direct to consumer and is really based on the influence of one person being Ty herself.
Speaker B:I think that the future of Outdoor Voices and whether or not this will be successful really depends on who the demo is that's going to latch onto this brand.
Speaker B: ials from their early days in: Speaker B:But I worry about whether or not that's going to be enough to sustain the brand, because I think if you look at this younger demographic, you look at, you know, Gen Z and Gen Alpha, I don't know that Tai Haney means anything to them.
Speaker B:I don't know that her coming back is really going to.
Speaker B:To bring the following that Outdoor Voices saw in previous years.
Speaker B:So, I mean, to answer A&M's question, I think, you know, it was not the time to release her.
Speaker B:They were still doing well.
Speaker B:They probably should have managed this better from who's doing the merchandising, who's in charge of the store launch plans and store openings and that kind of thing versus, you know, versus putting.
Speaker B:Putting her in charge of that.
Speaker B:And her real talent is leading the concepting, the design, the, you know, the.
Speaker B:The social commerce element of this, as she's done clearly, with her other two brands that she's also still a part of Joggy, the energy drink and her loyalty business that she spun up.
Speaker B:So I think she's a really smart individual.
Speaker B:They let her go too soon.
Speaker B:Can she bring awareness back to this brand in a very crowded athleisure space?
Speaker B:Verdict still out for me.
Speaker B:But what about you?
Speaker B:What do you think?
Speaker B:I mean, do you think that you can, you know, when is it time to let go of the founder, Chris?
Speaker C:Yeah, Well, I do think you could be smart about how you evaluate that 100%.
Speaker C:I mean, I think to me it's, it's, it comes down to two things.
Speaker C:It's based on the results that you're seeing and the cultural assessment of the organization with which that that person is leading.
Speaker C:You know, and I look back at what happened, I would disagree a little bit that they got rid of her too soon.
Speaker C:I think they're just bringing her back.
Speaker C:I mean, they got, they got rid of her for, you know, some good reasons.
Speaker C:Like they, they tried to grow too fast, they built all these stores out.
Speaker C:They didn't end up working.
Speaker C:They've shut them all down and now the business is online only.
Speaker C:I also get a little worried too when I hear, when I hear people say like, you know, she is the business.
Speaker C:Well, if she's the business, then it's not a business because it doesn't work with her when she leaves.
Speaker C:And a business needs to work whether the people are there or not ultimately.
Speaker C:Now I know in fashion that can be a little, a little bit tricky thing.
Speaker C:But then it gets into what are, what is that person tasked to do?
Speaker C:Should be she be tasked to lead up the marketing and the creative product design?
Speaker C:Yes, should be.
Speaker C:She'd be tasked with leading the business.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:So, so that's the thing.
Speaker C:And so I'm for that reason, because it's unclear how this is going to work, I'm a little skeptical of the headline and as it sounds like you are too, because one, the space is so oversaturated right now compared to where it was 10 years ago when the DTC money was just flowing rapidly into this space and she left the first time.
Speaker C:So, you know, why is the second time going to be any better?
Speaker C:It's not like Steve Jobs coming to resurrect Apple.
Speaker C:Apple was uber successful already at one point.
Speaker C:Outdoor Voices was was it successful or was it just riding the DTC curve and the athleisure trend curve at the same time?
Speaker C:So, so that is, those are the questions that I have outstanding for me right now.
Speaker C:And the ego, the one thing I do like is I like the ego of the social media move.
Speaker C:Like I think that is pure baller to try to do that.
Speaker C:But by the same token, it potentially pisses off a lot of people too because there's a.
Speaker C:Probably a lot of people are like, oh, now I just like this brand.
Speaker C:And now you, you've unfollowed me because you're so cool.
Speaker C:But you know, so you're gonna alienate some.
Speaker C:But net net I net net I, I think I like that move.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:But that's the only saving grace from this.
Speaker C:I think that's a cool marketing tactic that they deployed.
Speaker B:Yeah, I think there's more to the story.
Speaker B:And like we always say on the show, you got to follow the money.
Speaker B:I wouldn't be surprised if there were ties from this investment group to other things that she has going on.
Speaker B:They're like, well, since we're going to do a deal for Joggy or your leader, you know, like your loyalty app or something like me, could you, would you come back and we try to bring this brand back, you know, Outdoor Voices and could you be, you know, the face of this brand again so that we can try to see if you still have of name recognition and value to acquire new customers and more customers.
Speaker B:But I don't know.
Speaker B:I think she could have been much better off starting an entirely new.
Speaker B:I think if you're going to scrap and start from the beginning with your Outdoor Voices followers, I think you could have done a much better job just going off and doing something entirely new, especially with the product line, too.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:That was the other point I had that I was going to bring up, which I'm glad you did, which is like, like if, if, if you're really that good, why don't you just start this up on your own without all the legacy, like, you've already shut the stores down.
Speaker C:You're DTC only.
Speaker C:What do you get at this point?
Speaker C:You know, why don't you just go into the space on your own and start over?
Speaker B:You get elevated dresser dresses between designer and activewear.
Speaker B:Chris.
Speaker B:That you can wear while you're swinging nunchucks around.
Speaker C:I can be cool, confident and sexy or whatever it is.
Speaker C:Whatever.
Speaker B:Bold, confident and sexy with your nunchucks.
Speaker B:Go check out.
Speaker B:I love that the photo shoot included a woman swinging nunch.
Speaker B:I want to know where I can get my hands on some as part of my designer slash activewear apparel.
Speaker B:Okay, let's go on to headline number five, Chris.
Speaker B:Macy's is now selling an assortment from Abercrombie Kids as part of its back to school merchandising.
Speaker B:According to Retail Dive, the collection of jeans, T shirts, dresses, skirts, sweaters, outerwear and accessories will now be available in sizes 5 to 18 in stores and online, according to a Monday press release.
Speaker B:Chris, what do you think of this Abercrombie Kids and Macy's partnership?
Speaker C:Wow.
Speaker C:And you know, I think net net.
Speaker C:I like it for both sides.
Speaker C:I really do.
Speaker C:I think numbers wise, you know, numbers wise I was looking at the numbers last night.
Speaker C:There are approximately 100 Abercrombie Kids stores.
Speaker C:There's 350 Macy's stores in the US approximately.
Speaker C:So that's like three times the distribution, 3x the distribution for Abercrombie.
Speaker C:So I like that for Macy's, I like the back to school hook.
Speaker C:It gives people a reason to want to go to Macy's, which I've said has been a consistent problem for the department store in general.
Speaker C:Macy's particular.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:And so it gives them a hook over the next couple months.
Speaker C:Abercrombie also gets wider distribution for their inventory at this period of time, which is also important, especially when you look at the macroeconomic conditions.
Speaker C:And it also will get an understanding of where it's selling and what markets it's selling, you know, in the Macy's stores where it doesn't have its own standalone store.
Speaker C:So that could be advantageous in terms of understanding, you know, how it looks, as it looks to redefine its store strategy in the long term.
Speaker C:And Macy's, you know, at the end of the day, the funny thing about this story too, Macy's is only doing what it's always done, which is buying brands wholesale from companies that thinks are relevant for the time period.
Speaker C:So, you know, and, and does Abercrombie Kids Hollister, Abercrombie itself become also a long term digital marketplace partner of Macy's too, based on the success of this?
Speaker C:Maybe it's something I wouldn't take off the table given how the industry is consolidating and there's strange bedfellows emerging every day, but this could be proof point number one to that concept potentially over time too.
Speaker C:So, so net.
Speaker C:I don't, I don't think there's, there's anything not to like about this partnership.
Speaker C:But what do you think?
Speaker B:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker B:I mean, I think especially for Abercrombie and Fitch kids like it gets them space inside demos that they're going to want to be in without worrying about the overhead and staffing a whole store and doing all the things at peak times when they want to be there.
Speaker B:This is Back to school is one of the biggest times, you know, I could see them doing something for holiday.
Speaker B:This, this makes complete sense.
Speaker B:And we also significantly reduced their stores not too long ago too.
Speaker B:So this is really giving them the ability to find, you know, give people, give mace people a reason to go to Macy's and for Abercrombie to be able to, to learn from their presence in these Macy's Stores without that, that concern about overhead.
Speaker B:I think this is actually I'm really curious to see and maybe we'll ask.
Speaker B:Ask Ethan Chernofsky at Placer to see what kind of traffic Macy's gets from that because right now we just shot a back to school video for fashion's missing middle.
Speaker B:And Abercrombie and Fitch kids is definitely the most on trend assortment of product right now based on price.
Speaker B:Like it's a great like product.
Speaker B:It's driving.
Speaker B:There's tons of people in those stores and so I think we're going to see a lot of people end up going into Macy's to find this.
Speaker B:Plus it's a better place for product mix.
Speaker B:They can also get shoes there, they can get basics there.
Speaker B:They can get all the things they need while they're inside that Macy's stores but store but are really driven there because of the Abercrombie and Fitch kids being in that market.
Speaker B:So I think it's, it's going to benefit everyone all around.
Speaker B:And I'm curious to see where Macy's takes this next and with what brands they bring in.
Speaker B:Maybe even Abercrombie and Fitch, the adult version like you suggested.
Speaker C:Yeah, who knows?
Speaker C:I mean you can be very smart about that, you know, depending on where the stores are located and you could, you could use Macy's or other avenues to put them in products where you don't want to build stores, you know, or put them in the online sphere too.
Speaker C:You know, I think the online sphere is particularly interesting part of this story to me in terms of how it evolves like you know, next year do they just put it online?
Speaker C:Do they put in the store again, like who knows?
Speaker B:Yeah, and we just saw like JCPenney just acquired Aeropostal, Brooks Brothers, some of these other.
Speaker B:So I'm almost wondering if this starts to be a trend that we start to see with the department stores bringing in some of these mall brands to kind of, you know, just consolidate the space during those peak times when it makes.
Speaker B:Makes sense to.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Department stores become mini malls in and of themselves in a lot of ways.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Which actually from a convenience standpoint would make a ton of sense if you could do it.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker B:Chris, let's go to the lightning round here.
Speaker B:Question number one.
Speaker B:Aldi and other retailers are rolling out a range of Summerween Summerween products, bridging the gap between midsummer and Halloween.
Speaker B:What Halloween products release would you like to see moved up up to mid summer?
Speaker C:Oh, wow, that's a tough question.
Speaker C:God.
Speaker C:The only thing I can think of, Ann, is I, I, I love when they bring out the chocolate Twizzlers at Halloween, but I feel like those have now been available year round near me, so.
Speaker C:So I don't know if I can think of one.
Speaker C:I feel like all the candy that I like to partake in is available year round.
Speaker C:Is there something on your mind that spurred that question?
Speaker B:I mean, I wouldn't mind candy corn.
Speaker B:I do love candy corn, man.
Speaker B:But, but, yeah, I don't.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:I, I can't get into Halloween until it's at least, like, very cold out.
Speaker B:And pumpkin spice lattes too early when it's 99 degrees out.
Speaker B:You.
Speaker B:I'm not, I'm not.
Speaker C:I definitely don't need a pumpkin spice latte in July.
Speaker C:That's for sure.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker C:Yesterday was National Chicken Wing Day.
Speaker C:One, did you celebrate?
Speaker C:And two, what is your favorite cut of the buffalo wing?
Speaker C:Is it the wing or the drumstick?
Speaker B:I did not celebrate.
Speaker B:I did on Friday.
Speaker B:I guess last Friday had.
Speaker B:We had wings.
Speaker C:So close enough.
Speaker B:Close enough.
Speaker B:But I would say definitely a drummy.
Speaker B:You got to go for the drummy.
Speaker C:Oh, wow.
Speaker C:I like the wing.
Speaker C:I'm a wing guy.
Speaker B:The flats.
Speaker B:You're a flat.
Speaker C:The flats.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Chris, New data suggests that in an effort to support our happiness, health, and careers, Americans need to attend more parties than they are currently.
Speaker B:As party attendance in our country has gone down 50%.
Speaker B:What was the very best party that you've ever attended?
Speaker C:Oh, wow.
Speaker C:That's easy.
Speaker C:And so when I.
Speaker C: In: Speaker C:And my buddy, a woman I knew from college, invited me to the party.
Speaker C:Her name was Evan Dilgan.
Speaker C:And I went.
Speaker C:And it was in the City hall of San Francisco.
Speaker C:You want to talk about opulence and wealth on display in the height of money, just rolling into a city.
Speaker C:Oh, my God.
Speaker C:It was unbeatable, Ann.
Speaker C:Unbeatable.
Speaker B:What was there?
Speaker B:What was it?
Speaker C:Oh, they had, like, orchestras there, and, like, just all these different rooms serving drinks and food and dance floor, and it was, was.
Speaker C:It was crazy.
Speaker C:It was like, if you've ever seen the movie Milk, it was, like, filmed right there.
Speaker C:And we're, like, all standing in there just, like, having this wild party.
Speaker C:It was.
Speaker C:We're all dressed up.
Speaker C:Ties, evening gowns.
Speaker B:It was great.
Speaker C:Such a good time.
Speaker C:And, yeah, it was.
Speaker C:It was a blast.
Speaker C:All right, this one's a fun one.
Speaker C:Katy Perry and Justin Trudeau stepped out for dinner in Montreal one month, just one month after she announced her split from Orlando Bloom.
Speaker C:Of the two, who do you think leveled up the most?
Speaker B:So, just so I understand this question, you're saying, like, is did Katy Perry level up or did Justin Trudeau level up?
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:Okay, so I'm gonna say Justin Trudeau for sure, because Katy Perry is stunning.
Speaker B:He's fine, but he's no Orlando on.
Speaker C:An echelon higher than Justin Trudeau, even though Justin Trudeau leads a country.
Speaker C:Okay, I'm just making sure.
Speaker B:Led a country.
Speaker B:Now he's.
Speaker B:Now he's a dealer celebrity.
Speaker B:So, yes, I do think that Katy Perry is definitely much in a.
Speaker B:Much higher.
Speaker B:Like, he.
Speaker C:He got his fear.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:He got lucky.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:I would not disagree with you.
Speaker B:I cannot believe she.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't know what Orlando Bloom's deal is, but I would.
Speaker B:I would say Orlando Bloom all day, every day, over Justin Trudeau.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:Canada.
Speaker C:Oh, Canada.
Speaker C:Happy birthday today to Arnold Schwarzenegger, Christopher Nolan, and to the man who first mesmerized me as the badass bicycle messenger voodoo in the Kevin Bacon flick Quicksilver, the great Laurence Fishburne.
Speaker C:And remember, if you can only read or listen to one retail blog in the business, Make It Omnitok the only retail media outlet run by two former executives from a current top 10 US retailer.
Speaker C:Our Fast Five podcast is the quickest, fastest rundown of all the week's top news in our daily newsletter.
Speaker C:The Retail Daily minute tells you all you need to know each day to stay on top of your game as a retail executive and also regularly feature special content that is exclusive to us and that Ann and I take a lot of pride in doing just for you.
Speaker C:Thanks as always, for listening in.
Speaker C:Please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube.
Speaker C:You can follow us today at by simply going to YouTube.com omnitalkretail.
Speaker C:We will be back with our next edition of the OmniTalk Fast5 on August 20th.
Speaker C:So until then, as always, be careful out there.
