Amazon & Saks: Luxury Retail's Most Asinine Partnership?
In this eye-opening retail industry analysis, our expert panel examines the high-stakes partnership between Amazon and Saks Fifth Avenue that could reshape luxury shopping forever.
Key Moments:
0:02 - Introduction to the new "Luxury Stores at Amazon" partnership with Saks Fifth Avenue
0:50 - Ben Miller breaks down the strategy from Amazon's perspective as they pursue luxury consumers
1:18 - The fundamental mismatch between Amazon's utility-focused model and luxury's desire-creation business
2:05 - Critical context: Amazon's previous investment in Saks Global and the acquisition's financial problems
2:36 - Revelation of Saks' massive debt and upcoming repayment challenges driving this decision
3:32 - Chris Walton explains why luxury brands may not actually participate despite the partnership
4:16 - The "death knell" theory: Why using Fifth Avenue windows to promote Amazon shopping is "asinine"
5:15 - Counterpoint: Nordstrom's success with luxury through exceptional in-store experiences
6:54 - Anne Mezzenga provides a different perspective on the value of Amazon's convenience for luxury shoppers
7:53 - The shipping speed advantage: Getting luxury items next-day versus waiting a week
8:31 - How Amazon's Rufus AI could transform luxury shopping search and recommendations
9:23 - Heated debate: Could Buy with Prime have achieved the same goals without diluting the Saks brand?
Listen as our retail experts battle over whether this partnership represents a desperate financial move or a necessary evolution in luxury retail's ongoing digital transformation in this week's Fast Five podcast, sponsored by the A&M Consumer and Retail Group, Simbe, Mirakl, Ocampo Capital, Infios, and ClearDemand.
Catch the full episode here: https://youtu.be/BrQ0kfPY4LA
#amazon #saksfifthavenue #LuxuryRetail #retail #ecommercestrategy #retailinnovation #luxuryshopping #RetailDebate #AmazonLuxury #retailtransformation #omnichannel #retailbusiness
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy
Transcript
Amazon and Saks Fifth Avenue have launched a luxury e commerce storefront.
Speaker A:According to Retail Dive, the new shopping section is called Luxury Stores at Amazon.
Speaker A:It features a selection of merchandise curated by Saks Fifth Avenue, including women's and men's ready to wear beauty, shoes, handbags and accessories.
Speaker A:Merchandise is available through Amazon's app and website.
Speaker A:The launch is accompanied by specially designed digital displays inspired by the windows of Saks Fifth Avenue's New York flagship.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And the online storefront is also being promoted via a window installation at the Saks Fifth Avenue New York flagship store.
Speaker A:Ben, we're going to go to you first.
Speaker A:Our guest today.
Speaker A:Did Saks just signal its ultimate demise with the new Amazon partnership or do you think the partnership is the right move to make?
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:I think there's two perspectives on this.
Speaker B:There is the Amazon perspective and the Sacks perspective.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So let's do Amazon first.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So who wouldn't want luxury consumers on the platform?
Speaker B:High spenders, high net value, high margin goods.
Speaker B:And it's something that Amazon has been trying to do for a while.
Speaker B: of luxury stores since about: Speaker B:And somebody said to me the other day, which really resonated.
Speaker B:They were talking about luxury retail and they said to me, luxury retail is the game of making people want things they really don't need.
Speaker B:Which I thought was great.
Speaker B:And that's absolutely not what Amazon is designed for.
Speaker B:That's the antithesis of Amazon.
Speaker B:So there's always been a mismatch.
Speaker B:So for Amazon bringing the Saks brand onto the platform and crucially getting access to their supplier relations, that's a win.
Speaker B:And that win for them is probably what led them to invest in this new Sax Global formation last summer.
Speaker B:And ever since they did that, this move has felt pretty inevitable.
Speaker B:So, and that I think that context is really important because Amazon, along with Salesforce and Authentic Brands Group, helped finance Sax, the acquisition of Neiman Marcus.
Speaker B:So they helped finance the creation of Saks Global.
Speaker B:And I think that's the rub.
Speaker B:Yeah, really, if you start going from the Saks perspective, there's been so much coverage about this acquisition, we could, I'm sure we could do a podcast series in its own right.
Speaker B:But yeah, I think, I think everybody's aware it's not going very well.
Speaker B:It's got a huge amount of debt.
Speaker B:It's raised over 2 billion in junk bonds to finance the acquisition.
Speaker B:He's got a really large debt repayment coming up soon.
Speaker B:So Sachs has To find the cash flow to be able to make that payment.
Speaker B:And he's got to keep Amazon, one of his big investors on side.
Speaker B:And I think when you strip it all back, I think that's what's driving this activity above anything else.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:So you, so you think there's no value?
Speaker A:If I'm reading between the lines, you don't think there's value from a consumer perspective.
Speaker A:You just think you, you think that it's, they're not going to be going to Amazon for luxury.
Speaker A:That's, that's just, this is a, this is a move to pacify investors not so much or keep the peace not so much for the consumer.
Speaker B:I think the rationale is really strong for why Amazon would want to try and make this happen.
Speaker B:I think it's really challenging to see why from a Sax perspective.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker A:Chris, where do you land on this?
Speaker A:What are your thoughts?
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean a couple thoughts.
Speaker C:On what, on what Ben's, what Ben said and then kind of add my own twist to it too.
Speaker C:I think, you know, for Amazon it's kind of a no brainer in a way.
Speaker C:But I would caution the idea of Amazon being able to get all the brands under the Saks umbrella onto the platform because the brands still have to give permission to sell.
Speaker C:And I lived through that at Target when we, we acquired some high end cooking online websites with the idea or the premise that we would get access to their brands, which turned out not to be true.
Speaker C:We saw the same thing with Moosejaw and Walmart, the kerfuffle that they had trying to do the same thing.
Speaker C:It just doesn't happen that way as much as people want to think that it does.
Speaker C:So but you know, for Amazon.
Speaker C:So like let's try it.
Speaker C:But the other point I would make on the sacks side for on the investor side, this move, I mean this thing is just silly.
Speaker C:I mean to me it's like signals the death knell of eventually sacks.
Speaker C:Because the most ridiculous part of the announcement to me is is that someone at Saks actually thinks it makes sense to use the windows along fifth Avenue to advertise this.
Speaker C:It's like don't come into our store.
Speaker C:Everyone walking by on the greatest shopping street in America.
Speaker C:You know, you could just go to get the goods on Amazon.
Speaker C:I mean that is just absolutely asinine when I say that out loud.
Speaker C:I mean you guys have to agree with that.
Speaker C:I think so.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker C:I mean I.
Speaker A:Driving awareness, right?
Speaker A:Like it's, it's awareness to consumers that you could that now they are the.
Speaker C:Awareness of the death of your business model.
Speaker C:Like if people start to do, do that your, your stores are going to become obsoleted that quickly.
Speaker C:And so it just goes back to my point again of barring a few exceptions, department stores are the 21st century retail equivalent of the horse and buggy.
Speaker C:They're going away and this is just a further example of it.
Speaker C:And man, I think the proof's in the pudding.
Speaker B:I think that's a really interesting point around the department store model.
Speaker B:And I think the exception to that is the success that Nordstrom's having.
Speaker B:And Right.
Speaker B:Not Nordstrom is having because it recognizes that at the moment to sell luxury you need experience, you need personal selling.
Speaker B:You know, there is, I think there's lots of stories about the number one personal seller in the Neiman Marcus estate having moved to Nordstrom and taken her account book with her and she's turning over the equivalent of a, of a department store on a, on her own through personal selling.
Speaker B:So there is this ultra high end market whereby a physical environment of departments of curated products really resonates.
Speaker B:Now as the economies contract, you know, where is price and convenience going to become more compelling to consumers and more compelling for brands to get there?
Speaker B:Possibly.
Speaker B:Does luxury have a level of protection from that?
Speaker B:Possibly.
Speaker B:But I think there is still a role to play for that connection, that experience.
Speaker B:You've just got to look at the buzz of the Printom store in New York, create experience and you and sell luxury.
Speaker B:So I'm not, I'm not quite sure that the department store in luxury isn't the right thing to do.
Speaker B:I'm not sure that Saxon necessarily taking the right route to unlock it.
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker C:You have to position it that way.
Speaker C:That's why I said barring few exceptions for the most part it's going away.
Speaker C:Just like there's still horse and buggies riding around Central park if you do it right.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:You know, like you have to position the store experience in the right way.
Speaker C:And this particularly putting the devoting your windows to selling on Amazon is not that.
Speaker A:I don't know guys, I'm going to come in here with a different perspective.
Speaker A:I think that on one hand I totally agree.
Speaker A:Like the department store as we know needs to evolve or it's going to die.
Speaker A:And does this Amazon connection dilute the Sam's, the Saks brand a little bit?
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker A:But I do think that there's an important thing to call out here and that is that we've said that it's okay for Walmart.com to sell luxury, but now we're saying it's not okay for Amazon.com to sell luxury.
Speaker A:I think there's a major disconnect there because I think when you think about.
Speaker C:How people are selling, that's a different question.
Speaker C:But that's, that's from a different starting point and that's, that's Walmart selling luxury, having access to luxury.
Speaker C:That's different than.
Speaker C:That's to the point about Amazon.
Speaker C:Yeah, it makes sense for Amazon, but you know, for the, for the point of Sachs, that's Saks going on.
Speaker C:Amazon is different than the Walmart example.
Speaker A:There's still a point of Saks going on this to keep their business model alive.
Speaker A:The convenience stuff is, is number one here because if you still order something from Saks, from Nordstrom, from any of these retailers, the shipping take, you know, for me to cover shipping, even when I'm spending a certain amount of money to get free shipping, it still takes, I'm still waiting a week for an order from Nordstrom, for example.
Speaker A:Now I can go on.
Speaker A:If I'm a luxury shopper, I've already been in the store, I know what handbag I want.
Speaker A:If I want that delivered to me or that dress delivered to me for an event the next day, and I already have all of my Amazon information there and I can get it in one day, I think there's value to that.
Speaker A:And that's not something that with the current SAX model they're able to deliver on.
Speaker A:Second, I think when it does come to searching for something, like yesterday, I'm looking for basic black T shirts, but I want a high quality black T shirt.
Speaker A:When you start to think about things like Rufus, that Amazon's deployed where I can have an engaging conversation with somebody.
Speaker A:So the new version, the, the like now version of what that sales associate was able to help me with online in a store, when you think about how that's happening on Amazon and now I can be served up not just Amazon essentials T shirts, but I can also say, you know, Rufus, I want something that's a little bit more high quality and maybe I'm getting a James Purse T shirt that I would only be able to get if Saks is on the Amazon platform.
Speaker A:So I do think that there's value and this is Saks and Amazon kind of evolving together into the new definition of selling luxury.
Speaker C:Wow, we're starting off hot today.
Speaker C:So shots fired there.
Speaker C:But okay, I'm going to refute the point on two things.
Speaker C:The first part of that, just use by with Prime.
Speaker C:Then why do you have to do all this?
Speaker C:Like you could get all those shipping benefits just by linking up with buy with Prime.
Speaker A:You could, but I think that assumes that people are going directly to Saks.com, which we know they aren't going to as frequently and they're going to Amazon.
Speaker C:But that was the premise of what you said.
Speaker C:Like they can't.
Speaker C:They're shopping there and they're not confident in the delivery and the experience.
Speaker C:So okay, then get confidence in the delivery experience by leaning on with buyer Prime.
Speaker C:But then the second point is you're thinking about this in isolation.
Speaker C:You have to remember too that Amazon already has items available from these brands on their website.
Speaker C:So this isn't changing the experience.
Speaker A:Not all of the brands.
Speaker C:Well, the, the brands.
Speaker C:Anyone that wants to put a brand on the website as a third party seller can do that and that's been a problem on Amazon for years.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So the search experience is not really going to be augmented by this in any way, shape or form as well.
Speaker C:So.
